Having paid more than usual for new additions to my nursing badge collection recently I wonder what people think is the worth of our history? Is it down to market values which is very dependant upon the wealth of bidders or is there a natural top price which we should try to stick to? I was at an antiques fair at the weekend where one badge dealer was listing all his hospital and nursing items at £50-70 for relatively ordinary items(No I didn't buy any).
I must say it also works the other way that I benefit from high prices when selling but as this usually gets reinvested in badges it levels out.Views anyone?
I'm an avid watcher of nursing badge prices (and our history) and can only give an outsider (prices-wise) view. Some of the recent prices really are amazing, though there do seem to be one or two 'bargains'. In general badges I would like are well out of reach. Maybe if there were a glut prices would become realistic. And maybe dealers are making sure that that just doesn't happen.
Will I ever have a half decent collection? Badge prices are worse than the price of drugs.
...and just as addictive!
oh yes to the addiction. However any collectors item is worth what you want to pay for it. People will pay thousands for a Clarice Cliff pottery or a Picasso - personally you'd have to pay me to take them. Some badges will go for a lot of money - the Flo Nightingle being the holy grail to us collectors. Recently a Southport badge went for £123 & I got a badge for Eastern & German for £3.50. Bargains can still be has its just a case of waiting and hoping
sue
Nursesue, I have to agree with you that prices are getting silly. As most knows I generally only collect Irish badges and so far this year I have obtained / acquired a total of only 5 badges and 41 postcards. Tonight I put on what I thought was high price for an old Irish badge (hoping to get it for less) but as usual was outbid on last second of auction. It seems some people will pay over the odds to get it, look at price Nightingale went for tonight (£230, and thats for one with enemal damage).
I hear of others getting these bargains but Bargains for me are few and far between.
Indeed if I was to sell my spare UK mainland badges I bet they would not make what I gave for them.
However, there are 3 things I want in 2008.
1. To publish at least one article about badges/collecting.
2. To acquire at least 6 more Irish badges
3. Try to make it to a badge meet (hopefully Peter + Wilf arranging)
Anyone else got plans for 2008?
well, I have to agree about prices, but I think that at the end of the day we have to accept (as has been noted before almost everywhere) that badges are worth what people are willing pay for them.
I avoid the use of 'Collectors' as it seems to me that some of the current batch are 'investors'. Or thinking about a collection (with every goodwill) and paying well over the odds. A bit like share prices...
I see that you have made your Christmas wishes Eric (Do you get three in NIreland?) and wish the first 2.5 come together for you!
The missing .5? I sneaked it for myself - I hope that Peter wants/gets all the glory on the (nursing badges) badge meet - I'm just worker here!!
bargains can still be had but are getting fewer and hard to find. A pristine badge is always wonderful but sometimes you have to get them with the odd "flaw". The Edinburgh Royal Infirmary is a badge whose enamel seems to damage easily - if the price is right I'll buy a damaged one until (or can afford to) replace it. I have ones with missing pins but its not a problem as I don't wear them. I just look at my damaged ones with a view to saving our heritage. However, I have recently started to collect the hospital commerative medals/coins that have been up for sale. They're still good value for money ( at the moment), add an extra dimension to my collection and are different. I have 3 at the moment -my B/ham accident one is a very large and heavy medal ( I don't mean the army soldier type medals on ribbons awarded for combat). I'm currently eyeing up 2 more.....
My new year ambitions:-
A Flo Nightingale badge for less than £50 ( ha ha!!)
It would be wonderful to publish an articel on thsi subject
To see nurses ( and all ancillary) staff get rewarded for their dedication by a decent payrise
sue :-*
An idea struck me today (thankfully I don't have too many).
With Nursesue's themes I was thinking that it would make a fanastic Calender with badge pictures as illustrations.
January - all nursing governing bodies through the ages
February - Mental Health (psychiatric)
March - Religion (Easter time)
April - Learning Disability
May - Children's
June - Midwifery
July - Flowers / Flora
August - Myths & Legends
September -Heraldary
October - Nationalism
November - PAM's
December - Higher Education (Universities)
Each month has LOTS of badge pictures. What do you think??
Eric
Eric - what a brilliant idea. Where do I get one???? All joking aside its a great idea and I'd be willing to donate my photos. If the WI can do nude callendar to raise funds why can't this site do one??? I'm sure the members would be willing to buy and of course there's always ebay....
sue
ps new years resolution number 4 - to learn to spell or change my dyslexic typing finger!!!!
Hi, I'm hope Eric doesn't get too many more ideas. As a small minority may well be aware, I create (take/process/photographs/design/print) calendars for another website. This year an influential female (wife) declared next years calendars of the said site to be wild-flowers - of Crete!
In short, this calendar comprised something like 10,000 miles of travel; days lying about on Cretan mountain sides/in fields; uncountable hours computer processing the photographs/designing calendar pages/printing/rejecting/reprinting; binding.... etc, etc, etc... Not to mention recalcitrant sheep and goats/reluctant computers/donkey stubborn printers.... And then...
And then, here on my favourite site, where I seek recreation, what do I find? Eric and Sue debating how desireable a badge calendar would be! Forgive me - have you both thought of asking the women's institute? I believe that their (ex matrons and SAS trained crews) do a nice calendar line in badges too!
But really, Sue offering to donate her photographs for a nude calendar done by this site because the WI do one - or have I got that wrong? Oh, yes, I see (remembering the moderator) nursing badge photographs...
I like it! But I am absolutely bushed!!..... Any volunteers?!
Ps. But yes, I do like the idea. Very much. But wonder if very old postcard pictures of hospitals would also be an attractive theme?
Having availed myself of similar calenders for personal use in the past,Indeed finding old postcard pictures and one of London hospital badges,I can confirm the ease of arranging these through any one of a mnumber of private companies;i.e. http://www.fotocalendars.co.uk/?gclid=COnnxv3vjpACFR5UEAodvRjOGA
I did attempt an earlier response to your three wishes Eric,but my comuter ate it! Anyway hope you requests are met.I believe if you achieve No1 ,then No 2 may be easier as many nurses can be appreciative of the desire to preserve their badges for posterity,especially if demonstrated by articles ,etc.( A few years ago a collector called Steven Callendar Grant set up a nursing badges group and recieved several donations of badges from retired nurses to add to his "national archive",I am unsure how many of these he retains or what was happened to them?)
As far as a meet is concerned ,I have been in contact with individuals at the RCN to propose an exhibition/display and am awaiting their response,but even if they don't want to play I think we should still try a get together somewhere.
On a separate note an RCN member is trying to set up a History of nursing group for Devon,Cornwall and Somerset and I have offered my support,albeit possibly not a physical distance due to the geographical location.Will keep you all informed.
Wilf does calenders as well!!
Wow!!!!
You are a busy lad, managing different web sites as well as this one along with Schoolsofnursing one.
Peter, I looked at Foto site for calenders but I was really thinking of adding at least a dozen photos per month (some themes so plentiful could even get one picture per day) and having 1 postcard representing theme for month is excellent. I'm sure that there are loads of people who could contribute and write a theme for one month. Could we do an online calender initially for members?? This would save expense of publishing and indeed if successful, something to consider for 2009.
Could start a new board called Calender, each entry a theme. Problem is how to add pictures to it?
As I'm not computer litterate, it kindoff leaves me behind unfortunately.
Anyway, glad people like idea. Only wish I had skills to be a doer as well as a thinker.
ah Wilf - you've had to much cretan sun or ouzo or both!!! I've decided against a nude callendar - you just wouldn't want to see my white flabby bits and as for an alternative sexy nurse one - lets leave that to the sun newspaper and get all the nurses writing to complain about there reputations!!!!! I'll stick with my greek cat callendar. Anyhow I'm too busy arguing with BA about my delayed and then damaged suitcase. Thank god for marks and sparks in Piraeus and credit cards!!!!! We're thinking of driving down to Athens in about June next year to sell our greek car( its amazing what the steering wheel on the wrong side can do to second hand prices and we'd have to GO via Milan aahhhh all those designer shops -HEAVEN)
I'm happy to go with the majority and give any help as required but be gentle with me as I've tons of reading and an essay to do for my COPD diploma. Why do I volunteer for these courses???
sue xxxx ;D
I Have posted this on the nursebadge site but thought I might add on here as well;
Here we go again! I managed to pick up 4 nursing badges at an antiques fair yesterday from a badge dealer,the prices of which were on average £55 each. Now at that sort of price they are unlikely to be sold to anyone other than a dedicated collector and even I baulk at some of those prices.The question is do these prices encourage or deter the market ?
I have to say that I have certainly benefitted from some high prices recently but as this usually goes back into the acquisition of further badges,at equally high prices,there are few advantages for me.It has encouraged me to put several items up for sale that I might not have considered releasing so the argument is that it puts more collectables in circulation if you have the funds to buy them?
In conversations with some badge owners these prices may encourage badges out from the back of drawers onto ebay,one vendor telling me of her friend who trained at St Thomas who is wondering whether she should return her badge to the hospital or put it up for sale?
One can argue that if buyers are prepared to pay the money then it is surely their business what price to pay and tough luck for thems that can't afford it ? As most collectors are from a health service background few of us can rely on our fantastic salaries or pensions to fund an unlimited collecting spree,I'm afraid real life and bills intervene.Anyway,rant over,what do others feel about it?
For Sale 850 Nursing badges-Offers invited in excess of £35,000 anyone?
pete - I had noticed that you were selling some of your badges and have to agree with you. Prices are silly ( says she who jusy got a Dudley badge for £75) and I am thinking of the same thing - just collect a specific area. As you say a badge is what you are prepard to pay and my recent badge was worth the price as it was one I wanted ( and I just missed out on the Littlemore one). Given the current market I paid an average price. I'm glad you did well on your lots( yes I was watching). I have noticed that when new collectors start prices do rise and then usually settle - however this time they're still rising. So perhaps like you I'll start to sell some to enable me to collect Brummie/Midland & Scottish badges and perhaps school of nursing rather than midwifery..... decisons......decisions
sue
Have just bid over £100 for a badge not because I really really wanted it but rather to frustrate another bidder and because I had earnt the money from sales of others of my badges! I'm not proud but the red mist did descend,excess testosterone perhaps! I would like to think that the badge collecting community has some regard for its members and whilst we will have times that we will compete against each other for badges(sorry sue) there should be a bit of give and take or it becomes a very predatory world.
On the other hand I recently won some typed and handwritten notes from a nurse from one of my local hospitals.It was for an article written in 1942 for the Nursing Mirror on dealing with the casualties of the bombing in Lowestoft,relating to Theatre work.I don't know if it ever was published but it is worth more to the history of our profession,particularly in the handwritten notes attached ,than any single lump of metal.Whilst badges are one aspect of our history there is so much more in the form of photos,diaries,oral histories,etc that should be preserved.I have been fortunate to acquire some really evocative photos of Nursing groups and individual nurses recently and will attempt to add these to Squirl if it ever works again!! I Look forward to a broad range of articles and contributions on different aspects of history as this site continues to develop....rant over!
hi Pete - congratulations on your recent win with the art deco Manchester badge. It looks really beautiful from the photo. There have been times when I've not bid because I've recognised the bidders name. However if I really want the badge then i confess I have made a bid. I have a finding that you and I will cross horns, over a certain badge for sale, from a hospital that used to be located near B/ham airport!!!
Remind me never to cross you in a "testoserone moment" and may the best women or man win !!!!!!!
sue xx
Peter, as you and others are aware I generally only collect Irish Hospital badges and for several years now when I recognise people from this group bidding on perhaps a badge I've put first bid on, I generally do NOT bid against them. However, recently it has become a little too cut-throat. This acknowledgement and (dare I say 'respect') for our fellow collector has recently been lacking as Sue says may the best woman or man win (meaning may the one with the bigger wallet wins).
Perhaps if people here would let others know they specifically want a particular badge in their area / region etc then others could allow that person to obtain it more reasonably priced. I'm not suggesting finding an auction, I'm suggesting we put together rather than against one another. Like you who sees 'red', I also get a little annoyed when someone gets badge I'm after and I know they just collecting all and any badge available rather than from that specific area/region.
What do others think?
Am I idealistic to believe people are generally good OR has greed and lust finally taken over?
Indeed, to take it further we could actually contact each other when and if we see anywhere (ebay, fair or other auction site) a badge that we know other person is seeking. I wonder if thats type of citizenship government thinking or talking about recently??
hi - I have tried to set myself a limit on spending but will go the extra mile for that special badge. I originally started on Brummie/Midlands badges but there were few of these around. Then decided just to get reasonably priced ones then prices went up. Scottish badges were still fairly cheap and as I now reside in Scotland decided to collect them. Now all badges seem expensive and have reverted to just brummie, midlands and scottish badges - but will opt for elsewhere if tempted. Hence the recent Salisbury badge from Pete via ebay. I meant the best man or women to win a badge that I know Pete & I both want. This is the one time that I will bid but on the whole avoid other memebers who have put on a bid. if I don't bid or am outbid I always hope the badge goes to a fellow member.
sue :-*
I do tend to agree with you Eric that there ought to be room for some sort of concensus as to bidding against each other,if not on all items,but specifically those which are particularly sought after or relevant to an individual.It is well known that you specialise in Irish badges and as such I would not usually bid against you,(Good Luck with your current bidding on ebay!).
Whilst there will be occassions when we may disagree amongst ourselves,there is at least the satisfaction if we loose a bid to one of us that the item will have gone to a good home and not disappear into the "black hole" of collecting.If approached by others as to specific badges I hope that I would try to be of help and vice versa.A failure to respect other peoples considerations does not reflect well on the nurse in me and I can't help thinking that you reap what you sow in life? But perhaps I'm being naive?
I was thinking about this debate. I think it would be a great idea not to outbid another member. I would agree to this if I knew other members ebay names. I know Pete's but thats about it. Mine is susie1156. How would this work in practice?? What if 2 or more of us want the same badge? Its not difficult if you collect a specific area - eg irish badges or south england but occaisonaly areas overlap
Any how I'm willing to give it a go just let me know when you're after a badge. I mainly go after brummie/midland or scottish ones or rehoming Pete's much loved but finding others badges sales....
hope this helps
sue :)
Thanks Sue, glad you won your Birmingham Maternity! I was fortunate to win a badge from Little Plumstead Hospital,a learning disability hospital on the outskirts of Norwich so I am happy.Hope you get your Irish item Eric ?
A HUGE BIG THANKS TO ALL THOSE WHO DIDN'T BID AGAINST ME FOR THE MARSTON GREEN BADGE
This is just a sentimental badge as I was born there **years ago! Will post a photo on MSN site when it arrives. I did have a panic when a last minute bidder appeared and I got it for less than I was prepared to pay. Guess its smiles all round for those of getting our desired badges
THANKS AGAIN
luv sue :-*
Sorry Peter, Was winning up until 3 seconds before end when 3 other bids came in and pipped me at post. I suppose thats life and it makes one initially a little red but on reflection causes one to question one's collecting habits. Not getting it makes one realise how sins of lust, greed, pride and envy can quickly take hold and makes one stand back and reflect and try not to allow that to happen. My Irish collection is fairly small by comparsions to many fellow collectors on this site (in 2007 I only added 4 badges). But I've added few more images to gallery onfile (even of those not won), so at least I have an image record of them.
I noted Barry outbid me for RVH badges so I did not bid against him to allow him to get them; as it happens he was also outbid by same person who won 4 out of 5 Irish badges available.
Barry has started to photograph his massive collection and I know others on this site would value seeing them, so would encourage Barry to start picture folder on nursingbadges site (perhaps Peter could email Barry on how to do this).
Trust you all have a great Easter and THANK you all for sharing your stories, I for one enjoy reading them
Hi
I am new to this site, and have only recently started to buy badges thru the net.I thought I was the only person interested in collecting!! I have been picking them up for a number of years at car boot sales and in junk shops-being a nurse I appreciated their value (not financial). Due to migration I mainly have Australian, however there are quite a few UK badges which have obviously been brought over in the nursing diaspora. I had noticed that prices have risen recently, as even the most wretched junk shop owner in the most isolated country town seems to have cottoned on they are worth something. Would I be correct in thinking that this is being driven by investors rather than nurses with an interest in our history? Due to prices I will concentrate on hospitals I have some connection with or have worked at, anything else would prove too expensive. I too am after a Whittington Hospital badge, I have my own, but a colleague was burgled some years ago and I would love to replace hers.
Thanks for a great site, it's nice to know I'm not alone in being a bit of an "anorac".
Hi,
Welcome. I think that you will find that you are by no means alone being a bit of an 'anorac'... And also that often means, knowing some of our contributors, having a quite vast knowledge base (and not infrequently, large personal collections) about nursing badges. You do know about the nursing badge website?
http://groups.msn.com/nursingbadges/_homepage.msnw
Your interpretation of the price situation seems pretty accurate to me, and (being strictly prejudiced towards collecting the history of nursing by whatever means possible) I think personally that there has been more than a little 'carpet-bagging' over the past year or so.... But it is difficult - tarring all with the same brush would be a mistake.
I also know (from emails sent to schoolsofnursing.co.uk) that there are many people out there who just don't know that some of us are madly interested in contributing to nursing history. One very admirable lady told me that she had thrown away a lot of St Bartholemews papers which had belonged to a nursing relative simply because she could no longer keep them and that she did'nt know that anyone would be interested in them! She is now helping our website construct her relatives history and contributed several artifacts.....
Prices on ebay at least seem to be stabilising a little - which is very good news to those collectors who know that the true value of many items lies not in what the actual items are worth as cash value, but in thier cost to the original recipient - often the price of sheer dedication to reaching the goal. Priceless - lets hope that the carpet-baggers don't understand that or none of us will stand a chance.
Enjoy the site, hopefully you will get many more replies to this one....
W.B.
I would have to agree that the increased prices and subsequent interest in Nursing badges is a two edged sword.On the one hand it does bring out the carpetbaggers who are out for a quick buck and high prices may lead to some badges dissappearing from the public arena into the depths of private collections never to be seen again,slowly growing in value until they are sold on in the future.I really feel that this does no favours at all the the serious students of the topic and agree with many other collectors that these badges were meant to be appreciated in the broader public domain,both as symbols of the profession and as works of art in their own right.I still believe that there should be a national focus for the preservation of nursing badges rather than being left to individual colectors,but now appreciate that in the absence of a massive lottery win,it probably won't happen,especially as prices spiral.
Having benefitted from some very high prices myself for items sold recently I might be accused of double standards but this has been necessary to fund future acquisitions as times are hard! The reduced number of additions to my squirl pages over recent months testifies to the lack of succesful purchases,although I was pleased to win a Southampton Borough hospital badge which was the first badge I ever bought over 20 years ago before I donated it to a nurse who had trained at the hospital in the 1930s.My generosity then has taken this long to come across a replacement badge but if you wait around long enough patience is usually rewarded ,albeit at a much greater cost!!
Higher prices may have the positive effect of finding more badges out from the back of drawers where they may lie forgotten and if enough are found prices do eventually fall?
Anyway good luck with the collecting and Happy Nurses Day to all members.I believe the annual Nightingale commemorative service is also held today(all those badges!!! and hats too!!!)
Re;Nightingale service is actually taking place on Wednesday in Westminster Abbey; http://www.florence-nightingale-foundation.org.uk/commemoration_service_2008.htm
I guess its due to supply and demand and your own personal bank balance. Its not just nurse badges that command high prices - just look at the red cross or ambulance items. I've also steadily seen there prices rise. Backman I understand your mixed sentiments about selling badges inorder to fund future purchases . I did this to raise funds for a Sister Dora badge. Was it worth it?? Well i got the badge I wanted, its rare but i miss the others. Over the years I've watched the prices - London area always got good prices whereas Scotland and North England didn't quite get to those heady heights. Welsh badges were a rare site but got reasonable prices. I always find when new collectors arrive on the scene prices rise to fuel there "anorak obsession". Backmans Liverool badges reached some great prices - I was pleased for fellow collector to do well but couldn't quite stretch to some of those prices. Now any badge will command high prices -maybe it wil settle again as mor flood onto the market
But saying that I have successfully rehomed some of Backmans badges via ebay and some personal swapping. Got a great Dudley Road - had wanted one of these for ages. Maybe swapping is the way forward. I'm not an anorak obsessive I've got the full blown addition.
In some cases collecting any kind of memoribilia will save nursing history but also remember those long disappeared hospitals. Severalls SoN badge was sold recently - take a look at the photos on the derilict places website to see what I mean...... :-\