Hi, I noticed a pair of nightingales , which are unamed on ebay is this usual?, I have seen loyalty etc before, but thought that they were always named, and not silver after 1969, any thoughts ? Lizzie
Hi Lizzie & fellow SoN people.
I contacted the seller of the 2 Nightingale badges & asked about the badges, specifically how they came into her possession, who they were from & if they were genuine, the reply was as follows:
Hi,Dont know much about them, my fayher recently died and these were found in his belongings, so I am selling them. Sorry dont know where they came from or who if anyone the nurses were, there arnt any names on them. As far as I'm aware I believe them to be original, as an antique dealer looked at them and told me that the silver ones were made upto 1964/65. Hope this is of use to you Thank you for your interest.
- dawn7846
ps, do we know who won the SEN set?
Regards
Mike
I would be careful......
I took this extact from the Fellowship book....All nightingale badges were engraved with a name even if you had a duplicate awarded if the original was damaged or lost.
"Until 1965 the badges were made of silver but since that date, a silver coloured metal has been used. The badge is enamelled in blue, the colour of the ribbon of the Order of Merit awarded to Florence Nightingale. Each badge is engraved on the reverse with the name of its owner and the year in which it was awarded. There is a unique display of over 300 of these beautiful old badges, bequeathed to the Fellowship, in the Central Hall of St Thomas' Hospital in London. The display, in two glass-fronted cabinets, was made possible by a donation from Philip and Fiona Geiger."
Hi Pugwash/ Mike and all.... they sound iffy!.... were they out if the factory? they look as if they have rougher edges than the usual high standard of finish..... were they unused seconds? Lizzie
can someone send me a link of them I can't find them on ebay
Hi Pugwash , try this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/330754281078?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648#ht_500wt_1169
should take you there, although i didnt find them easily this is from my watch list, Lizzie
I dont think they are genuine and if they are, they were never awarded. They are too perfect for their age.
I see the seller comes from Birmingham which is were the manufactuer came from so these may be straight off the production line - hence no presentation boxes. I still would be wary.....
They don't look 'right' to me. The colours seem wrong but I can't put my finger on it - I will have a look at one of my own later to see if the penny will drop, but I am still on holiday and a little handicapped re accessing the actual badges. A couple of edges do look a little rough when viewing the reverse sides. I would need a much closer examination to be convinced of the provenance - exact measurements/weights/colour comparison etc, but yes, they could just be from the factory - even rejects. But I would never buy such a badge personally unless it had been issued and could be verified as genuine.
But, you pays your money, you take your chance. Like stamps these two could be worth a lot of money - or not...
Will.
Hi Will, my own thoughts also, also st thomas's are so careful about their nightingale badges, wanting them to go back after death etc, would they have allowed old ones to have been sold on...theyd either have been issued or scrapped...but because of that they could be so very rare! Lizzie
Hi all
I have again contacted the seller re badges. This time I asked if she knew how these badges came int her fathers possession, if he knew any nurses or links to badge makers & if anything is inscribed on the presentation case. Here is her answer:
Hi my father was not related to any nurses or as far as i'm aware did he know one. there are no marks on the box, no names engraved, they are so I was told old nurses badges and are silver as this is written on the reverse of the badges. My father did not know any badge makers. My late father was a huge fan of Boot sale and antique fares, this was his hobby of sorts travelling around and buying things that interested him, so I can only assume that he bought them from a boot sale. My sisters and I are selling other things on ebay that my father had over the years collected. Sorry I am not able to give you anymore Info, there is not much more I can say about them only what I have told you. Please feel free to e-mail again but I dont know what else I can tell you.
Regards
Myk1066
Hi All, i have asked the seller for dimensions and weight..might help us all! Lizzie
As a Memeber of the Nightingale Fellowship I thought I would pull a few strings and rung a couple of high ranking officers and fellow nurses. They have all said the same thing - BE AWARE. According to them - Never - has any badge been returned to STH that is remotely "dodgy". All have been traced back to their original owners
They have no records any "theft" from the Factory. Each badge was ordered from source with an application form ( I remember finding mine in). The Hospital never kept a "spare " store of unnamed bades. They all came from Birmingham with the names inscribed in their red boxes ready for presentation.
I am happy to weigh and measure mine if required but mine is not silver :)
Hi All, to add to that, this is what the seller said to my question about weight and size last night
"Hi the badges are measureing 1.5 inches each from point to point, and weigh around 16 grams each this will have to be a guide only as my scales are old. Hope this is of use to you."
Lizzie
what has happened to them? , off ebay today? has someone made a offer of have they been withdrawn? Lizzie
the seller has withdrawn the badges but the bid history doesn't say why but saying that I was tempted and did in fact place a bid Are they genuine - who's to know Hallmarks would give an indication as there age and place of manufacture and maybe they were factory rejects but I would still have loved one
I just smell a rat - why would the seller withdrawal?
it is fishy ! she hasnt replied to my question about why they were withdrawn(i didnt think she would but you never know!) or some one made an off ebay offer..it happened recently with a nother badge that just went..not meant to happen but does! Lizzie
i got this reply from the seller this morning:
"Hi, I removed them as they were part of my late fathers collection, and Im just not ready to lat them go at the moment. I may re-list in the future, sorry"
this may be the link to them:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/330754281078?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_500wt_1182
Lizzie
gets fishier by the moment!!! ::)
hI sUE, COULDNT AGREE MORE! , is it possible to test silver and tell its age anyone? Lizzie
hi - would have thought that hallmarks were enough to prove age and authenticity Having watched Antiques roadshow there is something that they use to test unknown metals but is this for gold only??
am sure a good jeweller would be able to help
hi, if an item is stamped silver that is more difficult ? as it doesnt give a hall mark to date, lizzie
I don't believe that any of the Nightingale badges that I've seen have carried a full hallmark and indeed few are even marked as being silver.other more experienced collectors may of course be able to add more details.The difficulty with nursing badges ,other than national states badges,unlike military medals appear to follow few standard patterns over their histories.Different batches may have been produced by different manufacturers with variations in colour,size,finding,etc. Few of these variations are known or recorded and the majority of existing knowledge of types,patterns and details is held by a small group of collectors,predominantly on this site.Only by further detailed research from the remaining school of nursing records where they exist or from manufacturers records might we get a betterpicture of these.
1 of them is back on for sale?- now as a private listing , bt still seems imperfect around edges Lizzie
found it - have decided not to bid on it not because i think its "wrong" but because i don't like sellers who retract bids and withdraw items and then resell at a later date Have had this done to me so many times and now i just don't bother with them In fact one guy in Australia dated the same set twice for different and invalid reasons 1st time says price was wrong but i had bid over his reserve price Relisted and dated again for same reason and yes i complained to ebay and won't buy from him/her anymore >:(
Hi Sue, yes i agree, because one minute the badge is being unlisted as it is setimental because it was her fathers and the next it is being relisted!...i supect they will be very popular because of the rarity...pity the silver cannot be tested for age: it seems odd that they werent used up, the wonky bits may be removed whilst engraving names and the badges tidied up around the edges..so why not use up all the silver ones first...unless they didnt have enough for the next set qualifying so just switched makers/metals...... we will never know? I wonder what happened to the ? taylor nightingale...did it come back to the UK?...to Tomiies collection?
Lizzie
ps Good Luck to Murray tomorrow!!
Have had another chat to the people in charge of the collection at Tommy's. I sent them the ebay link to show them. Caused quite a bit of interest!
For some strange reason all EN badges had a full Birmingham silver mark on them (mine did) but the RN badges started out with a hallmark but then just had SILVER stamped on them, they couldnt tell me the date it changed but it was early ? end of the 30's/40's
They tell me there is a way to tell if a Nightingale badge is genuine or not and I have asked their permission to publish this but have heard nothing back as yet. Watch this space.
On the India front - have had the next session of jabs, my rear end is like a sieve!!. My "uniform" has arrived which consists of bright Tango orange t shirts and baseball hats with matching backbacks. Just so not my colour. Give me back my denim dress, crisp apron and lace cap anyday - lol
thanks, for information about the badges ;sounds interesting?
you will not go missing in your t shirt!
Lizzie
yes a very interesting debate and can't wait for pugwash's next bit. Oh and it sounds as if pugwash is being sponsored by sleazy jet or has just been tangoed Whatever the uniform its a great thing you're doing
sue ;D
well real or not it didn't find its way to very rain sodden Fife :'(
dear friends I hate to be the bearer of "bad news" but there's a very nice Tommies gone on ebay complete with presentation box and i am 6 shades of envious green as I will never be able to afford it - :'(
number is 320954008256
Hi Sue,
And the price seems to have held up well too - around #506 GBPounds including postage. But then some scottish badges seem to be making good prices too - you might be able to sell a couple and get that Nightingale before too long....
Will.
but I would so miss my scottish especially some of my rarer ones and yes that nice Tommies is not on its way to Fife.............
Still there's a nice lot of items for sale belonging to same nurse/midwife bet that would make an interesting article for this site. Hubby is still at sea and he loves sleazy jet cos they do a direct flight from Edinburgh to Athens!! ::)
hi Sue , the nice group you mentioned has gone up so much!- a great shame if they are split up...which looks like thats what will happen..and as you say Sue, they could make a really interesting history! Never mind about that Tommies, i saw that someone had asked if it was real/forgery?...and he didnt answer the ? about its hstory/provenance
Lizzie