replica badges on ebay

[Sarah Rogers]

Hi, i have seen some replica badges on ebay , being honestly declared as such, but having returned a badge as not being accurately described (damge to rear and mended) i hope i am being more vigilant.
I saw, but didnt purchase a north wales replica badge in the last day or two on ebay recently....and now notice that a north wales badge has been sold again..this one is "boxed" and not described as a replica? what protection is there to us  collectors out there, ?9 aprt from returning it to the seller)?
thanks for any advice, Lizzie

[nursesue]

hi as a seller i always try and list as accurately as possible, highlighting in red and underlining any problems with item or that its a replica - but there are buyers out there who can also be as troublesome I once had negative feedback left for poorly packing  an item, that the packing and the badge was damaged in the post I asked the buyer to return the item before offering a refund As the item was sent as "signed for" and asked  why didn't they get a damaged item form from post office I heard nothing after that My issue is with sellers who offer extortionate P&P. It can be difficult selling but am not sticking up for the seller of the Denbigh as I will always list replica badges as replicas. Is it a case of buyer beware and reading refund conditions I will always offer full refunds as long as item is returned.
I am not always sure if the small print on the rear of badges is a hallmark or makers marks and so will always list as base metal ( or chrome/enamel) and state that there maybe possible hallmarks
I too have suffered bad experiences and give those sellers a wide berth and have gotten badges that are verrrry small or have turned out to be charity/fund raising badges... but there are some good sellers out there
sue x

[wilfb]

I wish someone would write an article on this one Lizzie - I don't have time right now. When you buy anything, but particularly when you buy online, you really are faced with the age old conundrum faced by people who buy precious metals - gold; silver; platinum etc - or people like us who just want a genuine article, particularly if you are a badge collector. Is it real? Genuine? Authentic? etc, etc...

Luckily for us the majority of badges appearing on auction sites such as ebay, and paid for by some form of credit card or, for example paypal, are usually covered by a seller guarantee if things do go bad. What we need to try to ensure, when collecting nursing badges, is that they don't go bad in the first place. Much will depend upon experience but maybe a few tips won't mislead.

1. Know your badge, or as much about it as possible. Printed material, on-line photographs, and so on are invaluable.
2. Buy from an approved source with printed return/refund agreements wherever possible.
3. Examine what you buy (intend to buy) carefully - does the item fit the description:-

   a) appearance - size/shape/colour/design/patina - if it looks new it probably is.
   b) wear, marks and abrasions - should be consistent with age/use seller description - expect a used car to show signs of use!
   c) weight - many badges do not say anything about this, but an experienced collector should be able to help.
   d) fittings - easier - most are obviously original (built in at manufacture) and conform with known patterns. Changes here are more often than not obvious.
   e) numbers - if only one was made and it's still in the British Museum yours isn't genuine!
   f)  material - most plastic weighs (and looks) much less than gold! Get to know your metal - gold, silver, tin, chromium, brass all look and weigh differently. For the
       same look, same weight.
   g) inscriptions - should follow known patterns - a 1925 GNC should follow a 1925 GNC pattern. But there may well be exceptions.

But most of all, it is a combination of all these things that usually makes for authenticity. The look and feel of as badge; its shape size and fittings; the tell tale marks which one would expect on a genuine item which has seen some use. It's a bit like the old urinalysis joke - when asking a class to taste the product, the teacher always dips the first finger in - and licks the second!!

But there are a few useful points - you can start right here and look through our own badge galleries - over 2500 examples. Go over to nursing badges at the 'Multiply' site. Have a look at Peter's (backman) badges on 'flicker' and if you can have a look at 'Nursing Badges' by Jennifer Meglaughlin. And lastly, though by no means least, have a look at Eric Wilkinson's collection of Irish badges here on schoolsofnursing. Enlarging one or two will show (in writing) along with the badges, many of the attributes you shoud be looking to check when assessing badges for purchase (before if possible).

I will try to add a few lnks here, but my internet has gone down/come back (etc) and it may well be later!....

http://www.schoolsofnursing.co.uk/gallery/

http://www.schoolsofnursing.co.uk/Gallery2/EWilkinsonDT2/EWIBadges1/page_01.htm

http://www.schoolsofnursing.co.uk/Articles/ACReplicaBadges1.htm

http://www.schoolsofnursing.co.uk/Collections1/GNCEWBadges.htm

http://nursingbadges.multiply.com/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/backmanmal/3387604281/in/set-72157615858909155/

[Sarah Rogers]

thanks so ,much to both of you for the advice, and i will continue to use the galleries etc to see what a badge looks like....its when the seller doesnt disclose something that is/may be a replica that is of concern....or when there is an alteration/damageto a badge which is undeclared.
On another point we visited St Thomas' today and saw the 300 plus nightingales together...amazing!
many thanks Lizzie

[wilfb]

Hi Lizzie.

300 plus Nightingales.... Please don't leave it there... Tell us about it. Sounds good!

[Sarah Rogers]

Hi, it was the display of the nightingales donated   by a couple, they are in 2 large display cases, upright... either side of a wooden statue of florence...all in date order 19?84 -1984 with the recipients name and year underneath...but sadly no photos /histroy about each owner...some are in good condition, some as damaged  as the one leigh sold recently... . Anyone can go and
see them(in Central Hall at st thomas.'..we even had a peek in the govenors hall...pugin style painted paper. Amazing tht anyone can wander in and around. i think that someone has posted a picture of the hall plus them on this site?
this is the page link with the information on;http://www.thenightingalefellowship.org.uk/nightingale-badge.php
i hope that i am not infringing any copyright...its a public access site!

we didnt go into the museum.at st thomas' ..£5.80 each! ..i think the london hospital one is free. (not very big )

[wilfb]

Hi lizzie.

Thanks for that. Perhaps next time I am in London I will make the effort. No you are not infringing anyones copyright.... It must be quite something to see. £5.80 won't go far in London, but you will know that much better than I do. Maybe you can view the museum on-line? I don't know the starting date of the badge display either. Perhaps Peter (backman) can assist...

I have to confess a leaning towards the London Hospital, Now Barts and The Royal London - our second nurse history was based on Barts:-

http://www.schoolsofnursing.co.uk/Articles/MollieWatkin/MollieWatkin00.htm

I have had the priveledge of meeting a still living member of her family who actually knew Mollie well. It is possible that we may be able to ensure that her story and memorabilia ends up in their museum.

Will.

[nursesue]

I do tend to browse sally's site to check out badges as well and sometimes I get tempted to stop and buy.
I have noticed that sometimes inexperienced sellers can "get it wrong".Take for example a recent WMH sold as a possible Wreham Maelor and that a Myddleton badge is being sold with a pin finding to rear as apposed to the one with a cord attachment to to the top. Perhaps the pin finding was added at a later date or a repair to a broken loop finding I have a Perth hospital with its original fob bar finding and one as a repaired piece with rear finding pin.
Most badges are of normal size but beware that American nurse badges are on the small side

[wilfb]

Hi Sue.

Now there's a thought. I haven't really looked closely at fittings - like everyone else I do check what's on offer, particularly where a finding seems to have been repaired/replaced. Always noticed but never considered in detail, and yet I have seen many non-standard fittings on sale.

A small article perhaps? Your 'badge design' is usually top of the pops on Google.

Will.

[nursesue]

hi - work in progress on rear pin fittings - any other ideas welcomed  :)

[nursesue]

have done some pics and put on my gallery as rear pin fixings  - hope this helps

[Sarah Rogers]

hi, thanks thats great .

[backman]

Having collected military badges in the past,I stopped that due to the number of copies,replicas and restrikes of those which were on the market and the fact that many were sold as being original.
Whilst it may be acceptable to collect such copies,and indeed damaged badges, to fill gaps in a collection due to the scarcity of the originals,these should be identified as such and prices should reflect that.
I must admit that I recently purchased a North Wales badge which appeared genuine only to find it a copy.I returned it and identified it as a copy and still await a refund however the vendor has since relisted it without detailing it to be a copy.
I would echo everything that Will says in his posting about looking at as many badges as possible,(perhaps it's time to consider a swap meet type gathering again to show parts of our collections??)
If anyone is in the Norwich region on the 12th May I think I will be displaying badges and ephemera from my collection at the Norfolk and Norwich hospital for Nurses day.

[Sarah Rogers]

hi, it was that wales badge that id seen another collector sell as a replica.....and then another  seller didnt state that it was....they were the seller  that sold me the damaged one, with an unusual attachment on the back...they did eventually refund me all the postage etc..including my return but the language was interesting and as they know my address i havent given feedback..either way!