Author Topic: General Nursing Council  (Read 37941 times)

wilfb

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Re: General Nursing Council
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2009, 12:51:07 PM »
Hi Peter.

A good link with super pictures. But I still wonder - were the shoulder flashes part of the GNC Regs, - I can't remember them ever issued by the GNC, but of course they could have been approved/permitted by them... I have looked, finding your lead, into some early regulations I have - 1927 and 1931 (plus I must have something later of my own somewhere.

I do have an SRN shoulder flash I will photograph later and add here, and a couple of scans relating to the 1927 and 1931 GNC Uniform Regulations on badges which I will add to the gallery, but I would love to know (for the sake of knowing) if the shoulder flashes (metal or cloth) were a requirement or simply approved/permitted.

W.

Photo added below. Point/Click to enlarge.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2009, 08:46:21 PM by wilfb »

wilfb

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Re: General Nursing Council
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2009, 08:41:09 PM »
I thought it more straightforward to attach a copy of the 1931 GNC uniform regulations below - but of course this is only an example, highlighting Peter's remark about the GNC being very specific about the regulations governing uniform - in this part in relation to badges - click the picture below to enlarge and have a look at the regulations relating to the 'Storm Cap'.

Perhaps we will locate  the 'regs relating to the shoulder badges soon.

But perhaps just as close to Barry's heart - the regulations did cover the wearing of official GNC buttons...
« Last Edit: June 08, 2009, 09:02:03 PM by wilfb »

nursesue

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Re: General Nursing Council
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2009, 01:25:53 PM »
an interesting debate. The 1919 Registration Act stated that the council "shall make Rules....with respect to the uniform or badge, which maybe worn by nurses so Registered" - which the council took very seriously hence the 3 and half pages of regulations pertaining to the wearing and issuing of the uniform - and only certain places were allowed to make the uniform.
In 1921 it was decided to use the council's Seal on every Registration Certificate was to be made into a medal.
Just out of interest the GNC approved  39 applications for new badges in September 1940 from nurses who lost their original one at Dunkirk and 21 applications for badges lost during the evacuation of the British Expeditionary Forces from France
As we all know Ethel Fenwick is SRN 1 -but here are some other notable names
No 2 - Alicia Lloyd-Still
No 3 - Rachael Cox- Davies
No 4 - Margaret Sparshott
No5 - Annie Dowbiggin
No 6 Charlotte Yapp
No1 on the RFN is Annie Bryant and Tom Christian is no 1 for RMN
 I am still trying to find out who is number 1 for the SEAN and who is the first name on the Scottish register..........................
sue

backman

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Re: General Nursing Council
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2009, 03:53:10 PM »
Well done Sue!
Some great info. there.Whilst several of these names are known to me others are not . I may need to search the online archives of the Nursing Record for further biographical details.
Doesn't this just reinforce the fact that for all the efforts put in by such people the public are more familiar with popstars,celebrities and sportspeople than with nurses? Even within our own profession we still rarely celebrate the achievements of these nursing pioneers!

nursesue

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Re: General Nursing Council
« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2009, 05:30:45 PM »
Pete  - the setting up of the GNC, the Register and the nurses who made it happen is a finding read. I hadn't realised that Ethel Fenwick was so opposed to setting up the Roll for SENs - I wonder what she'd have made of today's debate that Nursing should be an all graduate profession!! I recently read that " There was much controversy in the profession over the content of the pupil nurse' practical training. Some felt it was too broad and included procedures which ought to be the province of the SRN - e.g. the administration of oxygen" - such a gem of a quote
 I have tried to upload a copy of the first page of the Register - will also post it in the gallery so it's bigger to read. December 2 1922 saw the first candidates stand for election to GNC - they included
Ethel Fenwick - Past Matron St Barts Hospital London
Miss Lloyd Still - Matron St Thomas' Hospital London
Miss Cox Davies - Matron Royal Free Hospital London
Miss Sparshott - Matron Royal Infirmary Manchester
Miss Yapp - Matron  Lake Hospital Aston under Lyme
Tom Christian - chief charge nurse  Banstead Mental Hospital
hope this helps Pete
« Last Edit: April 07, 2010, 04:43:45 PM by wilfb »

wilfb

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Re: General Nursing Council
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2009, 10:30:26 AM »
Hello Sue.

Your last two additions to the debate are finding. We now have a published list of the 'Holy Grail' (no facetious intent) - the first seven entries on the GNC Register. I can't help wondering who penned the original entries. Does anyone herein know?

And going back to Peter's dated list of the register - 
Quote
GNC figures.Whilst I have not managed to get the final figures for those nurses on the GNC registers and rolls at close of play on June 30th 1983,(I wonder who was the recipient of the last Number?) I have however come up with some figures upto 1973 when they started to enter the details onto microfiche.
  So; SRN                 1921-73                                     1-472,888
        RSCN               1921-73                                     1-22,738
        RFN until closure in 1967                                     1-21,505
        RMN                -   1973                                      1-52,801
        RNMD renamed in 1962     
        RNMS                                                               1-10,102
        Male Nurses registered separately until 1950-          1-2142           
        SEAN               1944-62                                     1-72,175
        SEN                  1962-73                                     72,176-143,376  ( a massive rate of growth!)
        Roll of Mental Nurses 1962-72                                1-16814
        Roll of Mental Subnormal nurses                              1-7546
- there are some dates remaining to be clarified.

Starting at the beginning we don't yet have the start dates of those parts of the register pertaining to the commencement of the RMN; RNMD; RNMS; RNMH....

I will certainly see what I can find. Perhaps joint efforts would be more productive - any assistance would make an old man very happy!

Will.

backman

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Re: General Nursing Council
« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2009, 08:22:36 PM »
I notice a new ebay listing ;170344122846 of a 1923 GNc which at first glance appears not to be silver,or certainly can't see a hallmark?

wilfb

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Re: General Nursing Council
« Reply #37 on: June 13, 2009, 08:58:55 PM »
Hi peter.

Just had a look. It looks like chrome to me - but I suppose that silver could look much the same if highly polished and basic digital photography. But silver should carry a silver hallmark, and I can't see one either.

It seems a definite departure from the pattern of 1923 - the inscription (font) looks unusual - but I do happen to have a 1923 GNC badge - I will get it out and compare as best I can. Photographs can be very deceptive but the apparent lack of a hallmark is curious. Is it likely that Fattorini chromium plated any of these badges at that time?

I wonder if the number 15387 can be matched to the register? I will have a look at my badge tomorrow and add any observations here.

W.
Ps. Perhaps the seller can enlighten us all?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 09:02:00 PM by wilfb »

barrysutton

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Re: General Nursing Council
« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2009, 10:08:16 PM »
Hello Again,
Thank you for all the wonderful info you've put on the ste regarding my enquiry, whoever put the first page of the GNC register on , I would be intrested if you have within that register the name A.M. Bird, I belive she would have been Matron of the Northern Hospital in Leeds.
All the best,
ODPBarry

wilfb

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Re: General Nursing Council
« Reply #39 on: June 15, 2009, 05:47:32 PM »
Hello all.

Maybe Sue will return to answer your query if she can fairly soon Barry. Meanwhile  I would like to chip in a little more about the badge listed on ebay
Quote
I notice a new ebay listing ;170344122846 of a 1923 GNc which at first glance appears not to be silver,or certainly can't see a hallmark?
which Peter pointed out.

I haven't yet located my 1923 badge, but I have located a couple of 1922 and 1924/25, '38, 50's and a 60's versions which enabled a few comparisons and comments about these which may help clear a complicated picture a little... First. The face side of the badges all badges seem identical in design. The only difference seems to be that the enamel on the earlier (silver) badges appears royal blue in good light, whilst the chromium plated versions look more like the dark blue of a sister's uniform.  (Probably the same enamel being affected by different background shades).

The oval Fattorini trade mark is always (on my badges) top centre. There seem to be two versions - differences lie in the actual wording. Fattorini (Hockley St) Birmingham Ltd (no brackets), and Fattorini (Limited) Birmingham. I have two 1922 badges - each with an example of the different trade mark. The lack of 'Hockley St' on many later badges seems to indicate that may have been the original mark.

There are two versions of pin - one has a simple silver loop at the sharp end with a superb built in lever at the other, the pressure being maintained by the base of the pin levering against an almost 'b' (side view) base plate. The second is a half safety-pin design with the base of the pin rolled and bent through a tube - the pin itself provided the leverage. Both designs are present on my 1922 badges, one of each....

Some badges have loops - centrally placed at the base of the back - some do not. I think that these were perhaps fitted to order... Not much use in detecting differences from the mean.

There are obvious differences in the inscriptions - similar typefaces and placement in the silver badges - but very clear differences in placement of the numbers and wording. Similar but not same. I have a finding that they were individually applied by hand, but I don't know that to be true or false. There were of course button-hole finding badges. These generally have the inscription (Name/Qual/No./Date) running anti-clockwise around the rear face - clearly visible beyond the inverted C-sickle finding.

Each of these badges weighs 10 Grams approx.

I will add a few photographs as soon as possible - perhaps tomorrow, to help clear any fog I may have created. But getting back to the current ebay badge - the only real difference I can see is in the apparent lack of hallmark. But then it may have worn thin...

W.

16.June.2009 Ok. The photo's are below and observations invited. Click picture below to enlarge.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2009, 09:29:11 AM by wilfb »

backman

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Re: General Nursing Council
« Reply #40 on: July 05, 2009, 09:48:28 AM »
 Although not officially sanctioned there are also the privately produced and sold badges ,often wrongly attributed to the UKCC. I recently picked one of these up in Wales,the first time I had seem one with a name and number on the rear,this being G.L.Bracknell   M.2338. Anyone have any suggestions as to the significance of this number?

wilfb

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Re: General Nursing Council
« Reply #41 on: August 08, 2009, 04:00:49 PM »
Hi.

We don't seem to have any answers to Peter's observations about the privately produced 'Registered Nurse' badge (above), but I have had time now to examine a badge which aroused both his (and my) curiosity.

I notice a new ebay listing ;170344122846 of a 1923 GNc which at first glance appears not to be silver,or certainly can't see a hallmark?

I managed to win the ebay auction and examined the badge closely.  I made a number of pre-auction observations based on the ebay photographs:-


Just had a look. It looks like chrome to me - but I suppose that silver could look much the same if highly polished and basic digital photography. But silver should carry a silver hallmark, and I can't see one either.

It seems a definite departure from the pattern of 1923 - the inscription (font) looks unusual - but I do happen to have a 1923 GNC badge - I will get it out and compare as best I can. Photographs can be very deceptive but the apparent lack of a hallmark is curious. Is it likely that Fattorini chromium plated any of these badges at that time?

I wonder if the number 15387 can be matched to the register? I will have a look at my badge tomorrow and add any observations here.

W.
Ps. Perhaps the seller can enlighten us all?


The seller could not assist, so I will add a couple of photographs below as soon as I am able, along with my direct observations. My first impulse was to write the badge down as fraudulent. It certainly does not match the majority of characteristics of the early GNC registration badges. But it's existance is a reality for which I would like to see an explanation.

I will publish the photos and my observations in a few days - then perhaps we can move the discussion further.
Will.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2009, 04:02:52 PM by wilfb »

myk1066

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Re: General Nursing Council
« Reply #42 on: October 27, 2009, 01:14:41 PM »
Hi all.
Can anyone help me in dating the finding GNC badges.
SRN 468685
SRN 527982
SRN 571628
SRN 589155
SRN 594428
SRN 9466743 (This badge belongs to a fellow nurse who qualified 02/08/1973 & I also have a badge numbered 474140 from the same year)
RMN 59593
Also if anyone has one from 1969 that they want to sell/swap then that would be appreciated as it would make my collection complete from 1922 to 1969.
All help appreciated.
Mike
« Last Edit: October 29, 2009, 11:43:07 AM by myk1066 »

wilfb

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Re: General Nursing Council
« Reply #43 on: October 29, 2009, 08:39:09 AM »
Hello Myke.

I will certainly check those dates I have and get back if I can help. I think that Peter is the expert there.

I can say that I don't have a 1969 GNC.

Will.

Ps. (06. March 2010). Myke - I think that the numbers don't add up. SRN 9466743?  Did you punch the '9' by mistake?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2010, 04:54:15 PM by wilfb »

wilfb

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Re: General Nursing Council
« Reply #44 on: March 11, 2010, 04:56:05 PM »
Hi.

The General Nursing Council for England and Wales had a ruling that all 'state' badges issued were to be returned on the death of a nurse (and presumably when the council determined this for any other reason). Can anyone shed any light, I wonder, on the final destination of such returned badges. Were they simply destroyed - or perhaps archived somewhere for posterity?

Does, perhaps, SRN 1 - Mrs Ethel Gordon Bedford-Fenwick's badge (the holy grail), still exist?